60 Minutes CBS September 27, 2015 7:36pm-7:52pm PDT
>> pelley: picture a bar graph that averages the best political polls. donald trump stands above the crowded skyline of republican candidates like one of his boastful buildings. first in the nation, first in iowa, first in new hampshire, and first for the last 11 weeks. political architects are amazed because trump rose on a shaky foundation. his "shoot from the lip" style managed to offend women, latinos, and american p.o.w.s. now, with summer over and four months to iowa, voters captivated by a larger-than-life personality begin to want the fine details. that's what we were looking for this past tuesday when we met trump, on top, in his fifth avenue penthouse in manhattan. he surprised us with news about his tax plan. so, now you've got everybody's attention. >> donald trump: i do have their attention. >> pelley: revolution is easy, governing is hard.
and what i'd like to get to is how you intend to govern the country if you are elected president. what's your tax plan? >> trump: it's a substantial reduction for the middle-income people, because our middle class, scott, is being absolutely decimated. it will be a corporate also reduction. i think it'll be a great incentive for corporations. >> pelley: who are you going to raise taxes on? >> trump: if you look at actually raise, some very wealthy are going to be raised. some people that are getting unfair deductions are going to be raised. but overall, it's going to be a tremendous incentive to grow the economy, and we're going to take in the same or more money. and i think we're going to have something that's going to be spectacular. >> pelley: but republicans don't raise taxes. >> trump: well, we're not raising taxes. >> pelley: what kind of republican are you? >> trump: i mean, the only... well, i'm a pretty good republican, but i will tell you this-- i do have some differences. i don't want to have certain people on wall street getting away with paying no tax. >> pelley: you say you're going to lower taxes on the middle class. what are we talking about? >> trump: well, we're talking about numbers that will be announced over the next two days, and they'll be significant for the middle class. >> pelley: do you know what the
numbers are? >> trump: i know them right now. >> pelley: well, why don't you tell me? this is "60 minutes." it's time to tell the folks at home the details of what you intend to do. >> trump: i know, i know. i will say this-- there will be a large segment of our country that will have a zero rate, a zero rate. and that's something i haven't told anybody. >> pelley: you're talking about... >> trump: we're talking about people in the low-income brackets that are supposed to be paying taxes. many of them don't anyway. >> pelley: you're talking about making part of the population exempt from income tax. >> trump: that is correct. >> pelley: you're talking about cutting corporate income taxes? >> trump: that is correct. >> pelley: but there's a $19 trillion federal debt. >> trump: that's right. we're going to grow the economy so much... >> pelley: you can't afford to do those things. >> trump: no, no, but if the economy grows the way it should grow, if i bring jobs back from china, from japan, from mexico, from so many countries; everybody's taking our jobs. >> pelley: how do you get them back... >> trump: you get them back... >> pelley: ...those $20 an hour jobs that this country was built on? >> trump: right. exactly. you get them back by taking them away from other countries. i mean, if you look at china, we have... >> pelley: how does the president do that? >> trump: well, the president does it by not allowing places
like china to devaluate... you know, they devalue their currency, scott, to such an extent that it's impossible for our companies to compete. every time they do that, they suck the blood right out of our country. >> pelley: you're not running for president of china. >> trump: no, i'm running... >> pelley: you're not going to be able to prevent the devaluation of their currency. >> trump: oh, absolutely. sure you are, sure you are. look, they don't respect our president, they don't respect our country. they will respect me. they won't be doing it, but here's what we have to do-- if they don't come to the table, they're going to have a tax when they put their products into this country. and they're going to behave. >> pelley: so, you would tax their... >> trump: i would. >> pelley: ...products coming into the united states. you're talking about a trade war. >> trump: i don't want to say tax anything. i'm talking about a fair war. i'm talking about also, i have the smartest people on wall street lined up already. they're going to represent us on japan, on mexico. mexico, by the way, is taking our jobs. i love the mexican people. they're great people. but the leadership is too smart for our country. ford motor company, moving a $2.5 billion plant to mexico.
mexico... >> pelley: but there's nothing you can do about that as president. >> trump: sure there is. >> pelley: how do you keep them from exporting american jobs to mexico? >> trump: let's say ford... let's say ford moves to mexico. if they want to sell that car in the united states, they pay a tax. here's what's going to happen: they're not going to build their plant there. they're going to build it in the united states. >> pelley: but there is a north american free trade agreement. >> trump: and there shouldn't be. it's a disaster. >> pelley: but it is there. >> trump: okay, yeah, but... >> pelley: if you're president, you're going to have to live with it. >> trump: excuse me, we will either renegotiate it or we will break it. because, you know, every agreement has an end. >> pelley: you can't just break the law. >> trump: excuse me, every agreement has an end. every agreement has to be fair. every agreement has a defraud clause. we're being defrauded by all these countries. >> pelley: it's called free trade... >> trump: no, it's not. >> pelley: ...and it is a plank... >> trump: it's not the... >> pelley: ...of the republican platform. >> trump: scott, we need fair trade, not free trade. we need fair trade. it's got to be fair. >> pelley: trump's differences with republicans and democrats have him rising on a mood of national frustration. in our cbs news poll, nearly half of republicans in the early
primary states say they're not dissatisfied with washington, they're angry. they tell us that business know how matters much more than a political resume. and when they see the multibillionaire in his private 757, 80% of republicans say they see a strong leader. >> trump: so, i want to build our country. our country's been decimated. we have spent so much money in the middle east and other places. we... our roads are falling apart, our bridges are falling apart, everything's falling apart. we have to rebuild our country. >> pelley: this sounds great. how are you going to pay for it? >> trump: we're going to absolutely be able to pay for it. my economy will expand so rapidly, we're going to take jobs back from other countries and we will be able to pay for it. >> pelley: are you serious about deporting 12 million illegal immigrants? >> trump: well, nobody knows the number, but the answer is-- you just said it, they're illegal immigrants. they're here illegally.
first of all, i have to start a little bit differently. we're going to build a wall, and we're going to create a border. it's going to be a great wall, and it's not going to be very expensive. and it's going to be peanuts compared to the kind of numbers, you know? >> pelley: how are you going to build a wall... >> trump: it's called management. >> pelley: ...that is cheap and impenetrable? >> trump: it will be a real wall. it'll be a wall that works. it'll actually be a wall that will look good, believe it or not, because what they have now is a joke. they're... they're ugly, little and don't work. >> pelley: let's assume your wall has gone up. >> trump: good. >> pelley: 11 million, 12 million illegal immigrants... >> trump: or whatever the number is. >> pelley: ...still in the country. what do you do? >> trump: if they've done well, they're going out and they're coming back in legally. because you said it... >> pelley: you're rounding them all up. >> trump: we're rounding them up in a very humane way, in a very nice way. and they're going to be happy because they want to be legalized. and... and, by the way, i know it doesn't sound nice, but not everything is nice. >> pelley: it doesn't sound practical. >> trump: it is practical. it's going to work. they have to come here legally. and you know, when i talk about the wall-- and i said it
before-- we're going to have a tremendous, beautiful, wide open door. nice big door. we want people to come into the country. >> pelley: you know, the problem with a lot of these ideas is that the president of the united states is not the c.e.o. of america. >> trump: that's right. >> pelley: the constitution is going to tell you no. >> trump: we'll see. >> pelley: the congress is going to tell you no. >> trump: we'll see. >> pelley: the supreme court is going to tell you no. >> trump: well, we'll see. >> pelley: and you're not used to working in an environment like that. >> trump: look, i do it all the time. >> pelley: who tells you no? >> trump: i do it all the time. not that many people. i do it all the time. and i deal with governments all the time. i have... overseas, i have vast holdings overseas. >> pelley: what is the role of the u.s. military in the world? >> trump: i want to have a military that's so strong, so powerful, so modern, has the greatest equipment in the world, and that everybody says, "we're not going to mess with them." and we don't have that now. >> pelley: when has the u.s. military been too small to accomplish its mission? >> trump: it's not a question of too small. >> pelley: we're... >> trump: we... we don't have leadership. >> pelley: we're at war with isis as we sit here. how do you end it? >> trump: i would end isis forcefully.
i think isis... what they did was unbelievable, what they did with james foley and the cutting off of heads of everybody. i mean, these people are totally a disaster. now, let me just say this-- isis in syria, assad in syria, assad and isis are mortal enemies. we go in to fight isis. why aren't we letting isis go and fight assad, and then we pick up the remnants? why are we doing this? we're fighting isis, and assad has to be saying to himself, "they are the nicest or dumbest people that i've ever imagined." >> pelley: let me get this right-- so we lay off isis for now... >> trump: excuse me, let... >> pelley: ...lay off in syria, let them destroy assad, and then we go in behind that. >> trump: that's what i would say. yes, that's what i would say. >> pelley: or, he had another idea-- leave it to an old adversary. >> trump: if you look at syria, russia wants to get rid of isis. we want to get rid of isis. maybe let russia do it. let them get rid of isis. what the hell do we care? >> pelley: okay, that's syria.
what do you do in iraq... >> trump: with that... >> pelley: ...with isis? >> trump: look, with isis in iraq, you've got to knock them out. you've got to knock them out. you've got to fight them. you've got to fight them. you have to stand... >> pelley: on the ground? >> trump: if you need, you're going to have to do that, yes. >> pelley: troops on the ground. >> trump: yes. >> pelley: 15 years ago, he advocated a preemptive strike on north korea's nuclear program, which he still sees as a major threat. >> trump: well, you're going to have to do something at some point. >> pelley: you would drop a bomb on their nuclear reactor? >> trump: i would do something. you have to do something about north korea. now, what i would do is, i would make china respect us because china has extreme control over north korea. and i would say, "china, you better go in there, and you better do something because economically it could cost china." >> pelley: and they're going to listen to donald trump? >> trump: we d... yeah, they're going to listen to me. >> pelley: they don't listen to president of the united states... >> trump: they're going to listen to me. >> pelley: ...but donald trump they're going to listen... >> trump: just like i have the chinese banks in my buildings, they listen to me, they respect me. china has almost complete control over north korea. china will do that. and if they don't do that, they have to suffer economically because we have the engine that makes china work. you know, without the united states or without china sucking
out all our money and our jobs, china would collapse in about two minutes. >> pelley: what's your plan for obamacare? >> trump: obamacare's going to be repealed and replaced. obamacare is a disaster if you look at what's going on with premiums, where they're up 45%, 50%, 55%. >> pelley: how do you fix it? >> trump: there's many different ways. by the way, everybody's got to be covered. this is an un-republican thing for me to say because a lot of times, they say, "no, no, the lower 25%, they can't afford private," but... >> pelley: universal health care. >> trump: ...i am going to take care of everybody. i... i don't care if it costs me votes or not. everybody's going to be taken care of much better than they're taken care of now. >> pelley: the uninsured person is going to be taken care of, how? how? >> trump: they're going to be taken care of. i would make a deal with existing hospitals to take care of people. and you know what? if this is probably... >> pelley: make a deal? who pays for it? >> trump: the government's going to pay for it, but we're going to save so much money on the other side. but for the most, it's going to be a private plan and people are going to be able to go out and negotiate great plans with lots of different competition with lots of competitors with great companies. and they can have their doctors, they can have plans, they can have everything. >> pelley: in your book, "the
america we deserve," you proposed raising the social security retirement age to 70. is that still your plan? >> trump: yeah, not anymore because now what i want to do is take money back from other countries that are killing us, and i want to save social security. and we're going to save it without increases. we're not going to raise the age, and it will be just fine. >> pelley: how are you going to do that? it is a basket case? >> trump: through capability. we will set it up by making our country rich again. >> pelley: you know, the... the heart of all of your plans seems to be, "we're going to be rich." >> trump: we are going to do great. as a country, we are going to do great. >> pelley: you know, neither party likes you very much. how are you going to get... >> trump: i would say that's true, yes. >> pelley: how are you going to get anything through congress? >> trump: when you say the party, the establishment doesn't. for instance, i noticed that... that... >> pelley: well, that's who congress is. how are you going to get anything... >> trump: that's... oh, i'll get along. i get... i've gotten along with politicians my whole life. i've made a fortune on politicians. nobody knows politicians better than i do. i get along with politicians. >> pelley: you're not going to be able to buy them anymore. >> trump: no, no, i'm not going to buy them. i'm not going to buy them. i'll get along with them. you've got to get along, and you've got to get people to do what you... it's called
leadership. we don't have any leadership right now. >> pelley: in dallas this month, he nearly filled a 20,000-seat arena. our poll shows that his support extends from republicans to independents, young and old, evangelical and not. but his poll numbers did slip slightly last week, and nationally among all voters, majorities of blacks and hispanics disapprove. trump told us he will pay for his campaign all the way through the nomination. >> trump: yeah, i'm totally willing to... i'm self-funding my campaign. now, once you get the nomination, then the republican party kicks in and they raise all this money, and they do whatever they have to do. but i am absolutely 100% doing it myself. >> pelley: you love hearing about yourself. >> trump: i do. >> pelley: it is oxygen to you. what does that tell us about donald trump? >> trump: no, if i'm on a show, i'll turn on the show. but i don't think i'm any different than anybody else. if somebody's...
>> pelley: i was in your office. all the magazines on your desk... >> trump: well, i have a lot of covers. >> pelley: ...are covers of you. >> trump: i think i have more covers... >> pelley: all the pictures on the wall are pictures of you. >> trump: well, it's cheaper than wallpaper. >> pelley: what are we supposed to take from that? >> trump: you know, look, i'm on a lot of covers-- i think maybe more than almost any supermodel. i think more than any supermodel. but in a way, that is a sign of respect. people are respecting what you are doing. >> pelley: so, this is the corner office at 5th avenue and 57th, probably the most expensive intersection in the world. >> trump: i would say it is, absolutely. >> pelley: but there isn't enough respect, he told us, for the business he built. trump real estate scrapes the skies of the world-- apartments, offices, hotels, casinos, famous golf courses and television shows. he started with his father's successful real estate, and now trump says he's worth $10 billion. others estimate $4 billion--
real estate values are notoriously variable. and your father also used to tell you, if i have this right, "attack, attack, attack." >> trump: i'll
tell you what-- my father was a really good man with a tremendous heart, but he was a tough cookie. >> pelley: with a tougher hide, perhaps, than his son, who has sometimes gone to war with reporters. why so thin-skinned? >> trump: i don't like lies. i... i don't mind a bad story. if you did a bad story on me for "60 minutes," if it were a fair story, i wouldn't be thin- skinned at all. you know, some of the media is among the worst people i've ever met. and i mean a pretty good percentage is really a terrible group of people. they write lies, they write false stories. they know they're false. it makes no difference. and frankly, i don't call it thin-skinned; i'm angry. >> pelley: an impression is created, though, that you like to dish it out but you can't take a punch. >> trump: oh, i think i can take it. i... i could take it if it's fair. again, if people say things that are false-- which happens a lot with me-- if people say things that are false, i will fight,
like, harder than anybody. if i do something wrong-- and that happens-- and they write a fair story that i did something wrong,
there's nothing to fight about. i can handle that. i don't like lying. you know, i'm a very honorable guy. i don't like lies. >> pelley: what personal hardship has defined your character? >> trump: well, i think i've had some, but i had a brother who was a fantastic guy, fred. and he was a young man, and he passed away at a fairly young age, and he was an alcoholic. he would tell me constantly, "don't drink." and i've never had a drink. i own the largest winery on the east coast and yet i don't drink, which is a little weird. but he'd say, "don't drink, don't smoke." and he would tell me all the time because he had a problem with it. he died of alcoholism. >> pelley: that is a warning that he's pressed on his children, three of whom run his companies. >> trump: i have children that are very good children. and... and so far, i knock on wood. right, you know, who knows? >> pelley: very accomplished,
your three older children. >> trump: terrific people. but i say, "no drugs, no alcohol, no cigarettes." >> pelley: millions of people are wondering right now whether you are serious or whether this is a reality show. yesterday, you said, "if the presidency doesn't work out, i'll go back to my business." >> trump: well, that's true. >> pelley: do you intend... >> trump: i mean, that's true. i can't guarantee that... >> pelley: ...to be president, or not? >> trump: totally. but that's true. i always like to have a downside. i love my business. i didn't want to do this; i just see our country as going to hell, and i felt i had to do it.